1996.11/17 Interdependence

EXCERPTED FROM MESSAGES TO VIVIAN LUMBARD

I've decided the best way to answer this email is to insert comments at random
with no seeming connection to them.  :-)

> Kim...here goes...Thursday night - David and I met at the bar, went to
> another bar and played pool until closing, grabbed a bite to eat, and came
> back here and talked a bit.  He left about about 3:00 am.  It was a little
> awkward; I didn't even get a good night kiss....or a hug. :-(
> 
> Okay, Friday, we head to Foxwoods, got talking, missed an exit and ended up
> on Cape Cod, backtracked and got to the casino just a little bit later than
> we'd planned.  He seemed surprised that I wasn't upset about the unplanned
> detour.  Don't know why; the point was to spend time with him...  Played the
> slot machines, had dinner, drove back.  
> 
> We stopped at the rest area on 495 near Rt 4.  So I asked him whether or not
> he thought there might be more than friendship.  I told him I wasn't sure
> because he hadn't even tried to kiss me (that's usually a pretty fair
> barometer!).  He told me I was overthinking it all.  So I mentioned the story

"The unexamined life is not worth living".  But then again,
"Is this a dagger I see before me?"

> he'd told me about his blind date from hell when he told me, "There was *no*
> way I was going to give her a kiss goodnight."  David's response, "Hell, I
> should never have told you that story!"  We talked a bit more, then he gave
> me a kiss before we left the rest area.  
> 
> We're driving along and he told me that the reason he'd stopped at the rest
> area to begin with was to kiss me and if I'd waited five more minutes I never
> would've had to ask the question.  Seems I jumped the gun!  Although I
> might've stolen his thunder, so to speak, he was happy that I "had the guts
> to just ask the question."  
> 
> We came back here, watched some of "No Way Out" (BTW, good flick, if you've
> never seen it!), got hot and heavy for quite a long while, finished watching
> the movie, got hot and heavy again...he left at 10:30 am on Saturday morning.
> 
> No, I wasn't pressured into anything and yes, it was probably far too soon.

"Soon" is defined in terms of readiness and not by absolute time units.
Subjective vs. Objective time.

> Was part of it because it'd been so long for me?  Maybe a little, but if
> relieving tension was all it was, I have had opportunities before that I
> turned down without any regrets.  Honestly, David's no great shakes to look
> at, but he's an intelligent, funny man who interests me.  And yes, we enjoyed
> ourselves.
> 
> One thing that bothers me about him...he has a lazy eye.  No, I'm not that
> shallow!  What bothers me is that he's self-conscious about it so he has a
> habit of looking at you from the side as opposed to looking you straight in
> the eye.  It's probably not a big deal, but I'd rather be looking him in the
> face the majority of the time.

It is not shallow to disallow intimacy due to a lazy eye... or any other
intrisic or extrisic condition.  "Beauty is only skin deep", but if what you
truly need and desire is superficial beauty, then is it wrong to reject 
potential partners that are ugly?  The problem comes when people mismatch
their selection criteria to their true needs... which just as often 
confuses substance for appearance in both directions.

> I guess the other area that concerns me is that I sometimes feel that he's
> looking *too* far into the future...comments that seem to suggest very
> long-term when I'm not even trying to see that far ahead.  It's flattering,
> but worrisome.  I like him enough not to want to have him set himself up for
> a potential fall.  I don't have a very good track record with romantic
> relationships to start and it's been a long time...I need to feel much more
> comfortable before I can even start thinking about a year or two from now...

"Self-doubt is the eater of souls".  - Kim E. Lumbard

> I'm fairly certain that he got an ego boost because he was the first man I'd
> slept with in years (you know how many...puh-leeze, don't make me say it!
>  :-)  )  Which is fine, but I'm hoping he doesn't extract the connotation
> that he's "the one I waited (insert the depressing number here) years
> for"...you know what I mean?  

I know what you mean.

> He doesn't strike me as the dependent, clingy, falling in love with being in
> love sort of guy, which is good.  But, then again, he does strike me as
> someone who wants very badly to "emotionally connect," maybe more so to prove
> something to himself, which could cause some problems if I don't end up
> feeling the same strength of "connection."
> 
> I don't know if I'm seeing shadows that may not exist, because I'm very
> independent, almost fiercely so and am not so sure I'm really ready to give
> portions of that up.  Or if I'm just reading too much into things because
> I've been out of the dating scene so long.  I don't know if I'm holding back
> because of the situation or because of me personally.  Does that make sense?

It makes sense.

The entrance into an intimate relationship does not necessarily require the
relinquishing of independence.  People often see the scale of dependence 
and independence as being binary, i.e. you must sacrifice one to have the
other.  But you can also view dependence and independence as being part of
a natural progression... 

For example, after dependence might come co-dependence, where two or more
people are reliant on one another for fundamental image and vitality.
But after independence might come inter-dependence, where two independent
individuals rely on one another to nourish, aid, and love one another, 
despite the fact that such support is not necessary.  Desired, perhaps, but
not needed.  In both cases, I view the addition of more people into the 
collective web of co/inter-dependence as being a better situation.  

I would further add that independence is not innately a superior condition
to dependence, despite the fact that our American culture places a huge
emphasis on the former.  Here's an example from biology.  If a large
portion of simple organism like a starfish is destroyed, the organism can 
still survive and potentially even regenerate all the lost parts.  If a 
small element in a complex organism like a human goes faulty, the entire
organism typically dies.  Which one is more stable?  The starfish.  Which 
one has the higher survivability rate?  It's a toss-up.  Which would you
rather be?  I'd rather be human.

(In fact, I personally believe that all great accomplishments can only be 
achieved on the 'thin edge', where large numbers of units are interacting
and the success or failure relies heavily on the performance of each 
individual unit.  But I haven't fully codified this thought yet.)

> How do I feel?  I wish I knew.  I don't know where this is going, but I've
> decided to go along for the ride and see what happens.  If this could turn
> into something wonderful, I have to give it a chance to develop.  And if not,
> then maybe I could have some fun and learn to balance the different portions
> of my life...
> 
> I really did have fun...now I'm just thinking...and thinking...and
> thinking...

Just do it.

> So, Kim, that's what happened in a nutshell....what do you think?....Viv

Hmmm... not much.  :-)

[...]
> Kim...it's a month and a half later....and I think I may be getting sick
> again.  But I've got too much to do to worry about it overmuch.  If I start

It's entirely possible that those two situations are related, namely, 
overwork and persistent illness.

> getting yellow or green goo, then it's off to the doctor again for me!  I'm
> waiting for my new health insurance card; that has some slight bearing on the
> situation.  :-)

I recently got my dental insurance card from CIGNA.  Woohoo!  Boy did my teeth
need to be cleaned...

> Well, BillyBob's wife went back to work with some modifications in her
> schedule.  So far they're still doing well.  He was in the hospital a couple
> weeks ago for a viral infection...he's feeling much better now.

"Sickness, sickness, everywhere."  Or was that 
"Ashes, Ashes, we all fall down"?

> LOL!  I can't even try to keep my words at a minimum...it hurts too much!
>  :-)  

Equally challenging limiting smallest wordsize.

> You said it...and in one word!  :-)  Unfortunately, it doesn't look like
> David's luck is changing for the better.  He's now on my sh** list.  He was
> supposed to come by on Christmas Day and didn't.  Which in itself is somewhat
> forgiveable, but the last few weeks, it seems like I'm the one calling him
> and trying to keep in touch.  I'm not looking for a lifetime commitment or
> even to talk to him every day, but I'd like to at least *feel* like I'm high
> enough on his priority list that he'd like to touch base once in awhile.

Perhaps he has a good reason... maybe his truck got into an accident and
even now in the hospital his hand gropes for a phone with which to call you...
(Hmmm...  so that thought didn't turn out as uplifting as I thought it'd
be.  :-)

> He's got a copy of my schedule and I'm off for New Years.  So he's got until
> then to pick up the phone and try to make some plans with me.  If not, then
> he and I will be having a long discussion.  

Dissing him entirely with no explanation is also an option.

> Regardless of what he's been
> saying, I don't think he's really ready for a relationship.  

BE CAREFUL.  One of the things which annoyed me most about Dad was that
he would form an opinion based on limited (and often incorrect) information
and then hold to it despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
LISTEN to other people, and adapt your hypotheses accordingly.  Only in
the absence of input is the formation of (inherently shaky) theories
allowable.

That's my belief, and nothing you say can make me change it.  :-)

> I think he wants
> one, but he doesn't want the work involved to sustain it right now.  But,
> what bothers me, is whatever's going on, he's not communicating it to me.
>  The only reason I haven't said anything yet is because he has been busy and
> I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

What will be, is eventually.

> LOL!  A contraction is considered one word.  :-)

Is this under the Marquis de Queensbury rules, or what?  Personally, I think
Strunk and White is the definitive source...

> So what did you end up doing for Christmas?  I hope you had a nice day.  Lots

I spent most of the day completing my Post-It Note Mosaic.  My first 
attempt... is actually quite pitiful.  However, I did glean several valuable
techniques about what works (and what *doesn't* work) in this artform.  My
next creation should be much better...

> of people stopped by here and I got to see friends I hadn't seen in years.  I
> was pleasantly exhausted by the end of all of it.  I also ended up with three
> bottles of Kahlua, two bottles of wine and a bottle of whiskey.  Do people
> really see me as a lush?  ;-)

We are what we drink.  In which case you'd be about 30 proof.  :-)

[...]

> Eaters of Souls....hmmmm, how 'bout something like self-perceived terrible
> secrets eating away at someone?  No?  Well, I tried.  :-)

I was thinking of a more pro-active definition.  Hmmm... maybe we could 
start a whole 'Eaters' line.  Personally, I'd like to be the 
"Eater of Women".  :-)

> I see it as having someone there to add an extra dimension to my life.  I can
> still be me, but better...

One word: Accessorize!

> LOL!  I guess it's akin to not returning a phone message...the guilt, you
> know....hey, maybe that's the eater of souls....  :-)

I am the "Eater of Phone Messages", beware my coming!

> Oh, so you only occasionally practice what you preach.  :-)  ....Viv

I wasn't preaching; I was ranting.  There's a distinct difference, dammit!
;->